15 Feb 2015 15:58:13
Franson and Santorelli for Olli Jokinen, Brendan Leipsic, and a 1st round pick.

But wait, how can that be? Franson is apparently worth a mid-1st and an A-prospect, and Santorelli is worth a 2nd round pick. According to leafs fans on here at least. I'm amazed Forsberg isn't a part of the return!

Simply more proof that leafs fans live in a dreamworld.

1.) 15 Feb 2015
Toronto lost out a tiny bit, depending on how you view Leipsic.

2.) 15 Feb 2015
But it's a good move for their future. apart from a 35+ year old Jokinen. But the pick is nice.

3.) 15 Feb 2015
Oh, also proof that the leafs are intentionally tanking. Seriously, how has the league not stepped in at this point and put at a stop to this?

4.) 15 Feb 2015
I'm a leaf fan chirp and said Franson could fetch a late round 1st(but likely a second) and Sabtorelli could fetch a 2nd(but likely would be conditional). I would say that this deal pretty much slices up close to that value. Never once said Franson would get a mid-round 1st and an A prospect(not even sure how many Leaf fans made that claim).

I guess that's just More proof that non-leaf fans generalize/fabricate the opinion of leaf fans.

5.) 15 Feb 2015
@Chirp they're trying to discourage tanking as much as they can. But there's not much they can do to stop it, especially when names like McDavid and Eichel (who's a center!) are involved.

6.) 15 Feb 2015
Im not going to sit here and defend some of the trade proposals made on here.especially like the one below franson to cbj for ryan murray.but I think nonis dropped the ball on this one they could have got more then that.habs got more from Nashville for hal gill jeeez.

7.) 15 Feb 2015
And apparently to everyone else who isn't a leafs fan, franson was worth a second at best and a 3 for santorelli. So instead of looking like a typical leafs hater and self proclaimed hockey know-it-all(like everyone else on here) why don't we agree to meet in the middle and say that getting a 1st and a mediocre prospect isn't that bad! Besides the preds can easily not win the cup and it could end up anywhere!
Instead of bashing the leafs for once, why not trying to embrace the fact that the leafs are on a rebuild and maybe say something good about them getting a 1st round pick in this draft. We all know that is a good thing considering the leafs tend to trade away their 1st rounders!
God only knows this is something good to look forwards to in leaf land! This is the first time in years in happy with what the leafs have decided to do.

8.) 15 Feb 2015
Leafs are going to flip jokinen

9.) 15 Feb 2015
You better look at edmonton they have been tankinf for last six years and what is buffalo do

10.) 15 Feb 2015
I guess you could say leafs fans were wrong. Although if you put it as fans on for leispic and the first. Santo for jokinen. Now it depends on what you get for jokinen.

11.) 15 Feb 2015
@grape1 Obviously post was a broad generalization, and not regarding this website alone. Just sick of the overvaluing of leafs players by their fans. I'd been saying Franson was worth a 2nd and Santorelli worth a 3rd or 4th and took heat for it. And what did they get? A 1st (on the cusp of the 2nd round) and a prospect who was taken in the 3rd round. And a cash dump.

12.) 15 Feb 2015
@chirp

I get it. But amongst the people giving you heat, how many leaf fans agreed? Likely a lot. And there was likely an equal Amount of people saying Franson is worth a 4th at best as there were people saying he was worth a mid round 1st and an A prospect.

What is clear to me that there is almost always a divide between how fans and non-fans value their players. And the results of the actual trade are likely right in line with that gap.

13.) 15 Feb 2015
I like the 1st, I like the fiesty kid, Jokinen made the money work out, and could maybe be flipped for a 4th-5th rounder.

14.) 15 Feb 2015
15 Feb 2015 17:44:08
please show me a post where franson was shown to be valued at a mid 1st + 1 prospect.

stop talking out of you a** chirp, of wait you don't know any other way.

15.) 15 Feb 2015
I think the deal was franson for 1st which will be 26th or worse and jokinen.santorelli for leispic.i think closer to the deadline they could have done better and if they had traded both players in separate deals they could have done better.i was one of the non leaf fans who said they should have easily gotten a 1st for franson and I guess in that sense they did.but I personaly don't really like leispic I think he has gone downhill in his development since his 120 point season in junior he's a small guy who sometimes tries to play big which will lead to injuries.and jokinen is as useless as they come, I don't even know if they will be able to flip him before the deadline 6 points in 50 games.maybe nonis will redeem himself a little if he can get a pick back for him then the deal may not look as bad.

16.) 15 Feb 2015
@cosain You seem to have a decent head on your shoulders for the most part. Santorelli, who has been pretty good this year and is a good depth acquisition, just got the equivalent of a 3rd and a cash dump. You really think Jokinen, who has 6pts this year, is going to fetch a 4th? If the leafs get a 6th for him, I'll be surprised. And I'm putting my money on the trade coming from Florida since Jokinen played his best hockey there. Cheap playoff push.

17.) 15 Feb 2015
@shanklet Haha. Seriously? Scroll the page, you'll probably find one. If not it would be due to leafs fans filling this page with other garbage and pushing it out beyond the limits of the page. If you're seriously going to sit there and act like a great many leafs fan on here weren't asking for the moon for Franson, then there's no point in even talking to you because you're being glib.

18.) 15 Feb 2015
Once again, hab says it best.

19.) 15 Feb 2015
What a bad trade for Toronto the leaf are getting nothing good out of it! Once again we can see the poor management of the leaf organisation! The only good that come out of it is maybe that 1 pick but for the rest shanahan is a fool if he think he can get his hand on mcdavid, echeil or hanifin! If I know the leaf well they probably draft a strome or a barzal ahaha! So desapoint i'm going to see a game of leaf and habs on the week before march and the leaf are going to get blast without franson it won't even be fun to watch! Plus after the draft its going to be like why did you tank for nothing but idk the other offer but Montréal one was already bether then This one

20.) 15 Feb 2015
@chirp @shankar

I scrolled through the rumors page (1 and 2 as well as the Leafs page) and found a few really "bad" Franson trades(none that Chirp pointed out, but for the sake of argument I will agree they exist). But what is funny, is that for those few really bad trades, there were 3 or 4 leaf fans replying saying that it was an overvaluing of Franson or that the poster was out to lunch. And there was never a reply from the poster justifying their proposal (which is generally not the case when people are actually serious).

Also caught lots of Franson will bring back a mid round pick at best(undervaluing just as bad as overvaluing).

So maybe this "leaf fans overvaluing their players" isn't quite the pandemic you're suggesting it is. And there is almost no accountability on this site, so I don't know why you would take stock on those prosposals anyway.

21.) 15 Feb 2015
15 Feb 2015 18:48:21
montrealfinest, you're literally a walking talking contradiction. before you're saying franson is worth a 3rd at best, now you're sayong the leafs got screwed by getting a 1st. seriously, you're.....

and no chirp, no leaf fan, aside from the totally idiotic ones, expect the moon for franson. no wore than the edm fans saying ference has been playing great and is worth a 2nd.

22.) 15 Feb 2015
15 Feb 2015 18:52:29
also, an EDM fan cannot say any team in the league is intentionally tanking. how many top picks do you need? lastly on that point, if any team in the league is intentionally tanking its buffalo, trade players on the roster for a guy that's not even going to play this year, then trade for the worse goalie in the league.

either way, its just justified as a rebuild and as long as the teams stay cap compliant and aren't intentionally throwing games (which no professional athlete would do) the league can't do a thing; shows how much you actually know making comments like that.

23.) 15 Feb 2015
Franson isn't a top 2 d man so defs not worth 1st + A lvl prospect. A low first was more than fair for a pending ufa top 4 d man. Santorelli was one of the only players with a plus rating on the leafs this season, 29 pts, +7 in 57 gms. Idk how good leispic is and idk what they're going to do with jokinen, but santorelli is a good pickup for nashville. I think leafs couldve gotten a little more but the first round pick never hurts to have, as they were both pending ufa's anyway

24.) 15 Feb 2015
Shankar I never said that but I saaid franson for a 2nd! If you put santorelli it become a late 1 st! Jokinen is a joke and that prospect is like a future winnik at best! Leaf are trying to tank but at the end I just don't see any of the top 3 going to Toronto! Cause Carolina bufallo, Arizona and Edmonton are worst team then the leafs

25.) 15 Feb 2015
I never said leafs players were intentionally playing bad, now did I? But when a team is in playoff contention and fires their coach anyway, and brings in a clueless coach who sticks with a game plan that clearly doesn't work but no changes are made because it's exactly how mgmt wants it to go, that's an INTENTIONAL TANK.

You can't actually be comparing the leafs to buffalo, can you? Half of Buffalo's roster would be AHL prospects on any other team. They're not tanking, they're just plain awful. The Kane trade was a smart move for the future and if you can't see that then your leafs bubble is even thicker than I thought. As for Edm, they're the most mismanaged team in the league. How can there be success when mgmt doesn't have a clue what they're doing? It's like if you ran a team.

26.) 15 Feb 2015
If the leaf were not trying to tank they would have accepted a emelin and eller and 2 nd for franson at the least or any decent offer of any other team!

27.) 15 Feb 2015
U think th leg would step in?? And what u think Edmonton and buffalo are doing

28.) 15 Feb 2015
15 Feb 2015 21:52:36
chirp again, you talk just keep spewing useless garbage that makes no sense. you think you're so knowledgeable but really make no point and can't formulate a sensible argument. you just wrote a paragragh that could be summed up into a single insult. essentially eberything you write is spewing of trash that I find hilarious, keep em coming man, gives me something to laugh at during a boring sunday.

29.) 15 Feb 2015
What with this parade of delusion comparing what's gone on in Toronto over the past two months to buffalo (they're bottom rung in the league, a team made of AHLers) and Edmonton (mismanaged, poor drafting, no current depth, revolving door coach-wise, etc)? The comparison doesn't even make sense, yet so many leafs fans are making it. Buffalo doesn't even enter the conversation, everyone knew at the start of the season that they would be terrible. As for Edm, they started out terrible too. In fact, they've actually been playing better since Nelson took over. They might play themselves out of contention for Mc or E. But the leafs? They've put themselves into pretty much the best position possible to fail, and on purpose.

This "what about buffalo/Edmonton?" argument is already tired and never had legs to begin with. So quit with it already. Quit trying to make excuses.

30.) 15 Feb 2015
15 Feb 2015 21:56:06
and to the ONE other point you made in about 300 words of trash; yes I am comparing BUF to TOR, what's the problem? both are in the same league, have the same goal,and are separated by 5 spots in the standings. also, my point was more specific than that, you said you have to punish TOR for intentionally tanking, whihc is hilarious in itself, but if you were going to punish any team it would be BUF due to their recent transactions, not TOR. Now go, make me laugh some more pal.

31.) 15 Feb 2015
Actually Chirp, it is not a terrible team just a terrible coach. From last year to this year, Murray let 5 regular players go who are currently playing in Europe or the AHL & a 6th that was a late pickup by the LAKs. This team had 6 players (one less now that Stafford was traded) who scored at least 20 goals in their careers. If you will recall TML were willing to trade Franson for Gorges, & today Franson was essentially traded for a 1st (this is not saying Gorges is worth a 1st). Since last year Murray has added Moulson, Gionta, Gorges, Meszaros and McCormick. This is not to say the Sabres are a playoff team, just not a bottom feeder.

32.) 15 Feb 2015
Wow. Do you guys ever read your own posts? Even for leafs fans you're out to lunch. I've lived in Toronto, awesome city, befriended a great couple people who are leafs fans and they can string together a reasonable thought or two without effort. I guess the Internet is where you find the true dreks of leafs fandom. You guys really take the cake.

Yup, buffalo is the EXACT SAME situation as Toronto. You nailed it, guys. Good on ya.

33.) 16 Feb 2015
15 Feb 2015 22:40:56
no one has said buffalo is the same situation as toronto, of cousrse they aremt, but there are obvious similarities and you can compare CHI to BUF if you want, a comparison can be use for any number of reasons. obviously reading comprehension and logic aren't your strong points, but that's alright as it makes your points all the more funny.

34.) 16 Feb 2015
Im on team chrip here, buffalo has noooooooooone at all, toronto actually has some big name guys who have and do perform. You can't make an argument though that they're intentionally tanking and you can't punish them for playing awful, just how it is sometimes. Buffalo is nothing like toronto

35.) 16 Feb 2015
Buffalo is a mediocre team to become a great team with reinhart and mc david or echeil and devloping there first round pick!

While on the other hand Toronto who could be a playoff team! Its not the talent that lack you got jvr kessel rielly! The problem is no leadership and a management team that do horrible trade and contract!

36.) 16 Feb 2015
The first sentence of your post completely obliterates the rest of your post. You are clearly incompetent. Congrats.

37.) 16 Feb 2015
16 Feb 2015 06:12:47
again, you make no point, just a genralization. howerver, I do congratulate you on the use of some big words there. good use fo the thesaurus to find 'obliderates' and 'incompetent'