09 Mar 2017 14:12:22
Calgary Trades
Tkachuk
Toronto Trades
WNylander
Leivo
ANielsen (AHL)
Thoughts ?
1.) 09 Mar 2017
09 Mar 2017 15:18:09
Nope.
Marner for Tkachuk + 5th.
2.) 09 Mar 2017
09 Mar 2017 15:35:50
Leafs are not trading Marner #Fair Trade4all.
I proposed a very fair trade, WNylander will fit in nice with Gaudreau and Monahan, Leivo playing every game on a line with MBacklund and Frolik will in my guess be in the 25 goal and 50 to 60 point range, and ANielsen is a very good Prospect and Calgary needs DMan prospects.
The Leafs are at a stage where they can make a 3 for 1 deal like this.
Tkachuk is what they need and Kapanen will take WNylander's spot playing with Komarov and Kadri, its a good trade for both teams.
3.) 09 Mar 2017
09 Mar 2017 16:13:47
Marner has way more value than tkachuk.
4.) 09 Mar 2017
09 Mar 2017 16:22:39
Mclarty08 no he doesn't. They have about equal value. Tell me why Marner has "way more value"
5.) 09 Mar 2017
09 Mar 2017 19:12:27
Marner can drive a play and Carry a line. Tkachuk can score but he can't carry a line. Think of last year in London Marner made there team every time he stepped on the ice he made a difference. Tkachuk wasn't even in the same league as marner he just fed off of marner and Dvorak all season. Marner is a tier above Tkachuk. Tkachuk Is on the same level as Nylander IMO but tkachuk will benefit by playing in the western conference. Also marner has 10 More points in less games played.
6.) 09 Mar 2017
09 Mar 2017 19:46:20
Pinball and McIarty
Blue n white bias shows it's ugly head.
Sorry, Calgary won't be trading Tkachuk unless it's Marner coming back. Not 3 for 1's. Not for soft concussion boy Nylander + either. Maybe for Matthews? But not for anyone else on your team but those 2.
Marner and Tkachuk are EQUAL VALUE PLAYERS. One has more finesse and no physical play, one is tougher has more grit anin your face physical play. I value them as equal with perhaps maybe even a little edge to Tkachuk for being a year younger. There was absolutely 0 difference between the 3 players on the Knights first line squad that played the Memorial cup in Red Deer.
7.) 09 Mar 2017
09 Mar 2017 19:47:50
To say Tkachuk and Marner are the same is stupidity. Marner drive his line in London and is doing so in Toronto. Tkachuk is going to be a good 50-60 point guy, but Marner will be at 65-80.
8.) 09 Mar 2017
09 Mar 2017 20:05:49
Granted Marner is a more gifted play maker and point producer. However Tkachuk bring some much more to the table. Here are my reasons:
- Brings a physical presence and grit
- Younger (Almost a year)
- Bigger
- Better possession stats
- Better defensively
They are 2 very different players and it is not fair to just measure by points. Because Tkachuk bring much more than points I would say they have about equal value. Also Tkachuk >> Nylander.
9.) 09 Mar 2017
09 Mar 2017 20:41:05
TopShelf
Stop with the London Knights. That doesn't matter any more. Also how can you say he will be a 50-60 point guy when he could very possibly break 50 points in his rookie season as an 18 year old?
So far no one has backed up why Marner is better than Tkachuk with facts or even logic.
10.) 09 Mar 2017
09 Mar 2017 21:15:10
Well, here are some facts for you:
Mitch Marner: 15 goals and 37 assists for 52 points in 60 games
Matthew Tkachuk: 12 goals and 30 assists for 42 points in 62 games.
Marner has more goals, more assists, and about 25% more points than Tkachuk in two fewer games played.
Now, go ahead, use arbitrary measures like "toughness", "grit", and "potential" to tell me how they're at the very least equal right after asking for objective facts.
11.) 09 Mar 2017
09 Mar 2017 21:34:53
It's not that often. Mark it on the calendar.
But looks like Xcing and I are on the same page for this topic.
The players worth is not always how many points he can get.
Intangibles count as well.
Tkachuk has this edge and pisses off star players to get them off their game. Tkachuk will probably stay healthy and stay in the lineup longer than Marner. Marner doesn't take as many bad penalties (and doesn't draw as many either. ) The players equal out even though they have completely different styles of play and different skill sets.
12.) 09 Mar 2017
09 Mar 2017 22:00:13
Ok Shankar Marner wins points.
Now some stats for you:
Hits: Tkachuk wins
Blocks: Marner wins
+/ -: Tkachuk (12 vs -6)
Take away vs give away %: Tkachuk
Age: Tkachuk (220 day school younger)
CF%: Tkachuk
FF%: Tkachuk
Defensive zone starts: Tkachuk (over 65% as opposed to under 45% which is Marner)
These are all tangibles. As I said before Marner is a better point producer but statistically Tkachuk is more well rounded. And go ahead and tell me that Tkachuk doesn't bring grit and a hard nosed game. Leaf fans preach how great Kadri's game is and Tkachuk plays a similar game so please tell me why Marner > Tkachuk. (P. S. Points aren't everything) .
13.) 09 Mar 2017
09 Mar 2017 22:46:00
Sure, they're tangible, but a lot of them are open to criticism or alternate interpretation, while the ones I provided aren't.
Hits are at the discretion of the official scorer. Anyway, what do hits matter? This isn't the 70s.
Blocks don't matter much either. Look at Kris "Block King" Russell, he had to wait a long time to get a job last Summer, didn't he.
+/ - is less than useless and using it in any argument does nothing but discredit the argument.
220 days is nothing. they've both lived about 7000.
What's their difference between the two in those two measures? Is it anything of significance? (legitimate question, you looked it up already and I don't feel like it)
14.) 09 Mar 2017
09 Mar 2017 22:51:14
Also, go ahead and tell me Marner doesn't play with grit and toughness. Seriously, go ahead, I don't care because you're wrong for one, and because it's something that the impact of can't be accurately measured, so arguing it is basically useless.
15.) 10 Mar 2017
09 Mar 2017 23:18:44
Ok you know what I give in points are everything. If you have points than someone else then you are better. Panarin > Tarasenko
Marchand = Kane
Carter > Bergeron, Kopitar, and Tavares
Scheifle > Eichel
Kadri > Toews
Backlund > O'Rielly
Since points are the only real stat and anything that can't be measured doesn't count then this accurately depicts what you are saying. See how idiotic this looks? No you probably don't because this is exactly the point you are trying to make.
16.) 10 Mar 2017
09 Mar 2017 23:23:02
Marner is a faster skater, Smarter player, way better play maker, Better shot and has way better hands.
Tkachuk is more physical but worse at everything I just said. ( The physical aspect of the game is almost obsolete )
While Tkachuk is more physical marner still backchecks and goes in the corners.
Marner is by far the more supirior player this is like comparing Patty Kane to Rick Nash there not even in the same level.
17.) 10 Mar 2017
10 Mar 2017 00:06:59
This seriously has to be one of the most leaf biased comment sections ever. Holay!
Come on. I watched both Marner and Tkachuk in the Flames vs Leafs game. Tkachuk is good, but he is not on the same level as Marner. Intangibles like hits and blocks are pointless. What do you want, I'll give you Matt Martin, he beats both of them in the hits department. All I'm trying to say is this. Marner has a higher ceiling that Tkachuk, and that has to be seen by now. I'm not say Tkachuk isn't going to be good, i'm saying that in the long run, I'd rather have the player that can socre the clutch goal than lay the big hit. Cause Marner, for his size, he goes into the corners, he does the dirty work, hell, he even gets deflection goals because he was screening the goalie. If anyone here has who is bashing Marner actually WATCHED a leaf game, go ahead an tell me that his compete level isn't there. He is far and away the most competitive player on the team, and he isn't scared to do things that he shouldn't.
This (imo) is like comparing a Johnny Gaudreau/ lesser Patrick Kane to a Brad Marchand type. Brads good, but I'd still take a Johnny or a kane over him.
18.) 10 Mar 2017
10 Mar 2017 00:09:49
Also, @xcing, you just compared Tkachuk to Kadri, which imo is pretty fair (Kadri has been reallly good this year fyi), and that's pretty fair.
But on the leafs, Marner is still >> Kadri.
19.) 10 Mar 2017
10 Mar 2017 00:28:05
Sorry for the long response
haha you guys are comparing +/ - and corsi for marner and tkuchuk. Marner is playing on a line with the two worst possesion, +/ - and shooting differrencial players over the past three years in bozak and jvr. And you know what? he has run that line and has improved the that line ten fold, i'm honestly supprised marner is only a -6 playing on that line haha. also when comparing players who cares about +/ - completely useless stat unless that player is -20 then you know something is up. Hell everyone says Gardiner is the crappiest defending defender out there and he is a +23 this year, so get stuffed.
and bringing up age, come on man, that's like comparing crosby and ovie (who is a year older) when they were kids, i know its completely different level both having 100+ point rookie seasons and all, but no one cared about their ages, that wasnt the argument people used to see who whad more value or ho was better. even laine vs matthews, matthews is about more than half a year older, and they are both wrecking the league, honestly that use of "age" is useless in comparing players under 20, especially if the number is under a year difference. its different if you compare tkuchuk to panarins first year lol who was 24.
I believe Tkuckuk will definitely be a top line winger much like in the ilk of that marchand, but I believe marner will be a superstar who will be racing for spot of top point getter every year much like patrick kane. ALSO Marner will be on the pentaly kill next year, he has killed penalties at every level of his career, so you can't bang him for weak defence, its just hard when your line mates are useless in their own zone. and really? come on you're bringing up hits in this day and age? where hits have been proven to be a sign of having less possession. If hits are important wouldn't polak and martin be at the tp of your list of great players? the important stat is of hits seperating puck from player, even though tkuchuk most likely has more of those anyways.
So as I have shown above let's compare these two with the players i have compared them too. Marchand and kane. I think they can both be better overall than both of them, however i don't know if tkuchuk will ever have the year marchand is having now and I am not confident Marner will ever have a 100 pt season seeing how the game is progressing.
You'd still take a marchand over a kane?
I wouldnt. but anyways that's what i think, and if you take that as me putting down tkuchuk then you're mistaken.
20.) 10 Mar 2017
10 Mar 2017 02:02:08
Since when do hits not matter? Lol hitting is a pretty big part of the game man.
21.) 10 Mar 2017
10 Mar 2017 02:48:15
Shankar your us all on point but this time your dead wrong. Marner is a very special player but Tkachuk is just in another league. i'd take him before Matthews and maybe even McDavid. The guy is definitely worth more then Mariner to any Gm in the nhl. Maybe exepct uncle Lou.
22.) 10 Mar 2017
10 Mar 2017 02:50:53
Shankar just can't accept the fact that he's a Niagara that might wanna stick with basket and let the big boys talk.
23.) 10 Mar 2017
10 Mar 2017 04:09:41
lol didn't think tkatchuk had so much value.
24.) 10 Mar 2017
10 Mar 2017 06:09:23
This is why I hate talking to leaf fans. I am sure there are lots of reasonable fans out there but the ones on here are pretty bias. I give up. You can value Marner greater than McDavid if you want (and you probably will) and say stats that work against your arguement are meaningless. Have fun and please stick to being one of the fools that calls into radio stations that has no clue what they are talking about. Hey fun fact Aho has more goals than Marner (is he the next Gretzky? ) Aho > Marner because goals over everything.
25.) 10 Mar 2017
10 Mar 2017 08:15:04
Yeah, goals alone are now everything, that's exactly what I said. Good for you resorting to personal insults, too. Doing that is basically admitting you've lost an argument. It's childish, it really is.
26.) 10 Mar 2017
10 Mar 2017 12:14:31
Yeo, this was actually funny.
All we said was that points are probably the most important statistic in the game. And they are. Cause if a player has a +15, 150 hits and 7 points, is he great? No. We never said 'goals' were the most important. We said points are most important.
And if you've watched Marner, you'd understand where most leaf fans are coming from. He has a Patrick Kane streak in him, and he already has 53 points in his rookie season. Yeah Tkachuk can hit, but he just isn't as good of a player as Marner is skill-wise.
And we aren't that stupid. We know that Mcdavid is the future best player in the world, and we know what Marner, Matthews, Nylander and the other leafs are worth. In some ways, our evaluations of players right now are good.
27.) 10 Mar 2017
10 Mar 2017 13:33:27
Look what you did Pinball.
28.) 10 Mar 2017
10 Mar 2017 17:16:47
That's a lot of responses lol
My 2 cents, marner is more valuable. Tkachuk is a really good player and brings a lot to the table, every team wants and needs those guys. But as has been said on here a million times, marner runs a line, he's a game changer. And has a higher ceiling.
Easiest comparison I can make here that might actually show proof this summer without interpretation is Colorado is shopping landeskog and duchene (2nd and 3rd overall) marner and tkachuk were 4th and 6th overall. Landeskog brings grit, hits more, hits harder, plays an all round game, leads by example, plays the right way. A lot of the things tkachuk does that are hard to measure. Duchene scores more, skates faster. Has the ability to play centre or Wing and has a higher end skill set and ceiling.
Do you think the asking price/ offers are the same on those 2 players? Do you think Sakic expects the same return (reportedly Young NHL Dman, 2 top prospects and a first rounder) for landeskog as for duchene? I don't think so but time might tell.
29.) 10 Mar 2017
10 Mar 2017 17:58:24
Okay Pinball - Leivo will never be a 25 goal or 50-60 point guy. He is 23 and probably at his peak of development right around now, but his career high in goals in any season dating back to junior is 32 (in the OHL) . Nielsen is an alright d prospect, but I'd much rather have Kylington and Andersson on the flames over him.
Nylander and Tkatchuk hold relatively similar offensive upside, but in regards to play style and attitude most teams would take chucky in a heartbeat because teams hate to play against them.
You don't just trade an 18-19 year old player with Tkatchuk's skill and promise, and he's on a 50+ point pace.
Rant over, but I'm tired of hearing about Leivo, Sosh, and other meh players being 25-30 goal and 60 point players.
30.) 10 Mar 2017
10 Mar 2017 18:57:59
VB your assessment is a bit off.
Ktchuck and Marner are very close in value. Yes marner is speedy little winger with a little more skill but Tkachuk is a natural power forward that gets into the dirty areas to score goals. Which is a very valuable asset to have during the playoffs. To early to tell on this one Bra.
31.) 10 Mar 2017
10 Mar 2017 20:38:21
Did mcj habs really just say he's take tkachuk over Matthews or mcdavid?!?! That's a troll job too I hope.
32.) 10 Mar 2017
10 Mar 2017 21:07:13
Imo marner will be better then patty Kane the best power forward in the NHL is no where near Kane's value his potential is probably around Blake Wheeler.
33.) 11 Mar 2017
11 Mar 2017 04:04:42
Why would either team do the trade? Nylander wouldn't be as successful in the West just because of his style of play. You don't just go trading players that young unless you are Peter Charelli. Pinball stop this nonsense now.
34.) 11 Mar 2017
11 Mar 2017 07:34:18
So I skimmed through this post again and saw this, which I apparently missed the first time:
"Shankar just can't accept the fact that he's a Niagara that might wanna stick with basket and let the big boys talk. "
Would you mind repeating that in English?
35.) 11 Mar 2017
11 Mar 2017 17:33:30
I disagree with you on the Patrick Kane assesment. That's a pretty bold statement.
36.) 11 Mar 2017
11 Mar 2017 20:41:56
Shankar. sounds like a racist comment if I ever heard one.
37.) 28 Mar 2017
28 Mar 2017 12:03:57
This is terrible. Everything about these players should be who you want to build your team with. If you need points you take Marner, someone who can drive the play and put the puck in the net. Leafs have their role players on the team. If you have your scoring say, with a Monahan and Gaudreau it would be very beneficial to have a strong role player in Tkachuk. Now, intangibles matter in the game of hockey, anyone would be foolish to claim they don't. But in the role both these players were given as teenagers in their first years in the NHL both are playing up to and surpassing their expectations. To compare them is foolish as you wouldn't compare Crosby to Ryan O'Reilly. While both are great player, elite levels, they play different roles on their teams. Crosby is hard to play against based on supreme skill while O'Reilly is hard to play against based on grit, hitting, size etc. Both are very competent in their roles much like Tkachuk and Marner.